From owner-apnic-talk Tue Apr 1 16:41:05 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id QAA06593 for apnic-talk-outgoing; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:41:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from marikit.iphil.net (map@marikit.iphil.net [203.176.0.4]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA06588 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:40:55 +0900 (JST) Received: (from map@localhost) by marikit.iphil.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) id PAA14404 for apnic-talk@apnic.net; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:42:14 +0800 From: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" Message-Id: <199704010742.PAA14404@marikit.iphil.net> Subject: Querying for AS Numbers To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:42:13 +0800 (HKT) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, This might sound stupid, but I need to know our AS Number in APNIC's database. We lost our record of it. :) We tried whois, and it does match the AS numbers, but I'd like to search for it by name. Is it in the downloadable database? We're picking it up now. I'm also looking for WAIS gateways and software. Thanks, -- miguel a.l. paraz +63-2-893-0850 iphil communications, makati city, philippines _________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-apnic-talk Tue Apr 1 18:25:29 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id SAA07161 for apnic-talk-outgoing; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:25:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from koro.off.connect.com.au (koro.off.connect.com.au [192.94.41.1]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA07155 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:25:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from [192.94.41.78] (mattina.off.connect.com.au [192.94.41.78]) by koro.off.connect.com.au with SMTP id TAA18811 (8.8.5/IDA-1.6); Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:26:04 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: chris@koro.off.connect.com.au Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:26:07 +1000 To: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" From: chris@connect.com.au (Chris Chaundy) Subject: Re: Querying for AS Numbers Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk At 15:42 1/4/97, Miguel A.L. Paraz wrote: >Hi, > >This might sound stupid, but I need to know our AS Number in APNIC's >database. We lost our record of it. :) > >We tried whois, and it does match the AS numbers, but I'd like to search >for it by name. Is it in the downloadable database? We're picking it >up now. I'm also looking for WAIS gateways and software. On a VT100-style screen, telnet to wais.apnic.net, login name 'wais', enter 'vt100' for TERM=, select your source and off you go... -- Chris Chaundy (Network Manager) connect.com.au pty ltd, Level 9, 114 Albert Rd, Sth Melbourne, VIC 3205, Aust. Internet: chris@connect.com.au Phone: +61 3 9251-3671 Fax: +61 3 9251-3666 _________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-apnic-talk Tue Apr 1 18:49:59 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id SAA07319 for apnic-talk-outgoing; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:49:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from marikit.iphil.net (marikit.iphil.net [203.176.0.4]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA07314 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:49:56 +0900 (JST) Received: (from map@localhost) by marikit.iphil.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) id RAA15894; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:30:47 +0800 From: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" Message-Id: <199704010930.RAA15894@marikit.iphil.net> Subject: Re: Querying for AS Numbers To: chris@connect.com.au (Chris Chaundy) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:30:47 +0800 (HKT) Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net In-Reply-To: from "Chris Chaundy" at Apr 1, 97 07:26:07 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, Chris Chaundy wrote: > On a VT100-style screen, telnet to wais.apnic.net, login name 'wais', enter > 'vt100' for TERM=, select your source and off you go... Thanks, that was a great help! Greetings from the up-and-coming AS4743. This should be in the web site! :) -- miguel a.l. paraz +63-2-893-0850 iphil communications, makati city, philippines _________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-apnic-talk Thu Apr 3 21:55:18 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id VAA23483 for apnic-talk-outgoing; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:55:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from manado.webindonesia.com (root@ns.webindonesia.com [205.177.231.2]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id VAA23477 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:55:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from yapcs-r2 (yapcs-r2.iscs.nus.sg [137.132.85.230]) by manado.webindonesia.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA26926; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 07:58:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3343A908.10E86D55@tjt.or.id> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:56:40 +0800 From: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" Organization: Virtual LSM Teknologi Jari Tengah X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: The way APNIC operates ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hello, Recently, I raised issues regarding the APNIC funding scheme, and the way APNIC operates. My assumption was that the fund needed is depending on the way APNIC operates. (1) What is the point to switch AS# ? The AS# issue is still not clear for me. There should be a stronger statement from APNIC/IANA regarding this issue. Case: The user uplinks are to ISP#1, ISP#2. And the user asks an AS# from ISP#1. Later, the user switch from ISP#1 to ISP#3. Must (should) they change AS# ? All ISP#1, ISP#2, and ISP#3 are APNIC members. More complicated: If ISP#4, ISP#5 is in North America, and the user switchs to them. Should they change AS# ? --------- (2) Does APNIC really inform that there is a possibility for a waiver ? I know a case, where APNIC did not inform that a waiver is possible. Nevertheless, I am against the waiver policy in regions with more than one APNIC member. - It is not fair, if one pays but not the other one. - Where does APNIC get fund if too many asks for a waiver ? ----- (3) Happiness is a like warm gun .... (Beatles - 1967) I did not say that the users are not happy with APNIC. They may be not happy with the whole system/IANA. This may leed to a mutiny of IANA's root and numbers. INTRANET is just a start. Some (most) are very smart. They did reject X.25, X.400, X.500, and any other TELCO's related solution in the past. They may reject how IANA operates in the future! until next week, -- Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - CEO VLSM-TJT - http://www.tjt.or.id/rms46 ISO-9000:Write down what you do, do what you write down, verity it! _________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-apnic-talk Fri Apr 4 17:50:10 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id RAA29555 for apnic-talk-outgoing; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 17:50:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from marikit.iphil.net (map@marikit.iphil.net [203.176.0.4]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA29550 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 17:50:05 +0900 (JST) Received: (from map@localhost) by marikit.iphil.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) id QAA25130; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:51:28 +0800 From: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" Message-Id: <199704040851.QAA25130@marikit.iphil.net> Subject: Re: The way APNIC operates ... To: ibrahim@tjt.or.id (Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:51:28 +0800 (HKT) Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net In-Reply-To: <3343A908.10E86D55@tjt.or.id> from "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" at Apr 3, 97 08:56:40 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim wrote: > (1) > What is the point to switch AS# ? > The AS# issue is still not clear for me. > There should be a stronger statement from > APNIC/IANA regarding this issue. If I'm not mistaken, since AS numbers are not assigned hierarchically, they are portable between providers. Regards, -- miguel a.l. paraz +63-2-893-0850 iphil communications, makati city, philippines _________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-apnic-talk Wed Apr 9 15:19:01 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id PAA01635 for apnic-talk-outgoing; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 15:19:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from nostromo.jp.apnic.net (root@Cust35.Max6.Atlanta.GA.MS.UU.NET [153.35.43.163]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id PAA01619; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 15:18:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from ronin.apnic.net (davidc@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nostromo.jp.apnic.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA00328; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:24:09 GMT Message-Id: <199704051924.TAA00328@nostromo.jp.apnic.net> To: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: Re: The way APNIC operates ... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:56:40 +0800." <3343A908.10E86D55@tjt.or.id> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 19:24:09 +0000 From: "David R. Conrad" Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, >Must (should) they change AS# ? Again, this would be a contractual issue -- if ISP#1 has contractual language that says they must return the AS if they change providers, then obviously that's what the customer would need to do. APNIC takes no position on whether this is good or bad (in contrast to the situation with IP addresses where we strongly encourage ISPs to have contractual language indicating the customer must return address space when they change providers). It is worth noting however that renumbering an AS is relatively easy (at least compared to renumbering IP addresses), thus should a provider require AS numbers be returned, changing the router configs in which the AS number is referenced (in my experience, managed centrally) would be all that would be required. >If ISP#4, ISP#5 is in North America, and the user switchs to them. >Should they change AS# ? Where the ISP is located or where the AS number has been allocated is irrelevant -- there is no hierarchical significance with ASes. >(2) Does APNIC really inform that there is a possibility for a waiver ? As I described in previous mail, if an organization indicates they feel the APNIC membership fee is an undue burden, we inform them they can petition the executive council to waive (or reduce) their fee. In addition, waivers are documented in the APNIC by-laws -- something that is included (by reference) in the service agreement (contract) organizations sign when they become members. >I know a case, where APNIC did not inform that a waiver is possible. If the organization did not indicate the fee would be a burden, we don't normally volunteer the information that they may apply for a waiver. >Nevertheless, I am against the waiver policy in regions with more than one >APNIC member. Understood. If you feel strongly about this, I'd recommend you propose the membership amend the APNIC by-laws to remove this responsibility from the APNIC Executive. >They may be not happy with the whole system/IANA. I myself am not particularly happy with various aspects of the Internet registry system, however I'm just the hired help (:-)). The policies that APNIC follow are those imposed on us by the IANA or the IETF. Given these policies are (theoretically) global in applicability, there are many limitations in how much APNIC can modify those policies. However, there is an effort being made within the IETF to evolve the registry system so it can remain relevant. PAGAN (Policies And Guidelines for the Allocation of Network numbers) was initiated (by me actually, but I've recently resigned as a co-chair due to lack of time) in the IETF and there is a mailing list/archives. If you'd like to subscribe to PAGAN send a message of "subscribe" to pagan-request@apnic.net, archives are available from ftp://ftp.apnic.net/mailing-lists/pagan/* (note: PAGAN used to be called IRE (Internet Registry Evolution), but we got too much DNS-related traffic -- PAGAN is very specifically targeted at address allocation issues, _NOT_ DNS issues). Regards, -drc _________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-apnic-talk Sat Apr 12 18:11:02 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id SAA21166 for apnic-talk-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 18:11:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from manado.webindonesia.com (root@ns.webindonesia.com [205.177.231.2]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA21161 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 18:10:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from yapcs-r2 (yapcs-r2.iscs.nus.sg [137.132.85.230]) by manado.webindonesia.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id FAA23868 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 05:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <334F51F0.37BE9549@tjt.or.id> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 17:12:16 +0800 From: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" Organization: VLSM-TJT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: AS#: whose problem References: <199704051924.TAA00328@nostromo.jp.apnic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk David R. Conrad wrote: > [AS# ...] > APNIC takes no position on whether this is good or bad (in contrast > to the situation with IP addresses where we strongly encourage ISPs > to have contractual language indicating the customer must return > address space when they change providers). If this is not APNIC's problem, to whom should I write my concern ? - What are the terms from IANA ? (what RFC ?) - What are the terms from APNIC ? (what fine prints ?) I see no point why an ISP has right for asking an AS# back, only because it has paid membership fee for APNIC's services. cheers, -- Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - CEO VLSM-TJT - http://www.tjt.or.id/rms46 ISO-9000:Write down what you do, do what you write down, verity it! _________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-apnic-talk Sat Apr 19 16:19:15 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id QAA02118 for apnic-talk-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:19:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from apnic-ttc.apnic.net (firewall-user@apnic-ttc.apnic.net [203.178.142.242]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA02113 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:19:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by apnic-ttc.apnic.net; id QAA16344; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:08:05 +0900 Received: from unknown(10.0.10.4) by apnic-ttc.apnic.net via smap (g3.0.3) id xma016342; Sat, 19 Apr 97 16:08:00 +0900 Received: from apnic.net (davidc@localhost) by moonsky.jp.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA26054 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:21:28 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199704190721.QAA26054@moonsky.jp.apnic.net> X-Authentication-Warning: moonsky.jp.apnic.net: davidc owned process doing -bs To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: APNIC's actions on the IAHC gTLD-MoU Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:21:28 +0900 From: "David R. Conrad" Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, As you may have heard, APNIC has signed the gTLD MoU. The APNIC Executive Council was unanimous (well, almost: one EC member never responded to my request for comments, although that member's alternate did respond positively and it is quite likely that the EC member would be in favor since he was a member of the IAHC) in expressing the desire that APNIC sign the gTLD-MoU. Comments ranged from expressing strong support for the IAHC final recommendation to wanting Asia Pacific region to have input in future related developments should the IAHC recommendation be implemented. It should be noted that signing the gTLD-MoU in no way constrains the APNIC membership from either supporting or not supporting the IAHC final recommendation as they see fit, but rather insures APNIC has the option of input in future IAHC-related developments (should there be any) as a member of the Policy Advisory Board. Regards, -drc _________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-apnic-talk Tue Apr 22 17:30:35 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id RAA19551 for apnic-talk-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:30:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from nostromo.apnic.net (root@[203.13.71.12]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA19529; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:30:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from nostromo.apnic.net (davidc@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nostromo.apnic.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01204; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:56:53 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199704220656.PAA01204@nostromo.apnic.net> To: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: Re: AS#: whose problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 12 Apr 1997 17:12:16 +0800." <334F51F0.37BE9549@tjt.or.id> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:56:53 +0900 From: David R Conrad Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, Sorry for the slow reply... >> APNIC takes no position on whether this is good or bad (in contrast >> to the situation with IP addresses where we strongly encourage ISPs >> to have contractual language indicating the customer must return >> address space when they change providers). > >If this is not APNIC's problem, to whom should I write my concern ? >- What are the terms from IANA ? (what RFC ?) >- What are the terms from APNIC ? (what fine prints ?) I'd recommend making a proposal for the APNIC membership. >I see no point why an ISP has right for asking an AS# back, >only because it has paid membership fee for APNIC's services. The ISP is providing a service for which they can define the contractual agreement. Part of that contractual agreement can specify whether the resource should be returned or not. If such conditions are not acceptable, there is no requirement to sign the contract. Regards, -drc _________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+