From owner-pagan Thu Jan 8 17:06:39 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id RAA12603 for pagan-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:06:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from portal.arosnet.se (portal.arosnet.se [194.16.50.3]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA12598 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:06:36 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:06:36 +0900 (JST) From: nomail4@juno.com Message-Id: <199801080806.RAA12598@teckla.apnic.net> Received: from default ([208.254.80.145]) by portal.arosnet.se (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-39853U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAS289; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:12:54 +0100 To: ems86@juno.com Subject: as much new business as you can handle Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hello, If You're Marketing a Product, Service, or Opportunity on the Internet, or Through an Online Service, or Have a Web Site, You Will *Definitely* Be Interested In What We Have To Offer. 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Thank You And Have A Profitable Day! 352.357.8489 (human) 352.315.6100 (voicemail) (email) (promo code#: 106ab) (mention this code when you call to receive the promotion prices!) From owner-pagan Thu Jan 22 18:15:55 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id SAA10504 for pagan-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:15:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from geocities.com (mail4.geocities.com [209.1.224.24]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA10499 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:15:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from yapcs-r2 (yapcs-r2.iscs.nus.sg [137.132.85.230]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA23736 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:18:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34C70E81.4431B048@geocities.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:16:49 +0800 From: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" Organization: VLSM-TJT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pagan@apnic.net Subject: Happy 1998 for PAGAN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Dear PAGANers, I wish you a happy 1998! Stay tune, -- Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - CEO VLSM-TJT - http://www.vlsm.org/rms46 ------- Grounded Theoreticians do it with data (mw/tic) ----------- From owner-pagan Thu Jan 22 19:34:50 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id TAA11571 for pagan-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:34:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from eponymous.priori.net (eponymous.priori.net [209.104.193.36]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id TAA11566 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:34:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from justin (justin.corp.priori.net [209.104.193.42]) by eponymous.priori.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9801.14/JDF) with SMTP id CAA10325; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:37:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980122023606.017a43c0@local.mail.priori.net> X-Sender: justin@local.mail.priori.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:36:06 -0800 To: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" , pagan@apnic.net From: "Justin W. Newton" Subject: Re: Happy 1998 for PAGAN In-Reply-To: <34C70E81.4431B048@geocities.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Jeez, I almost died of shock when my filters said I got mail to PAGAN. As a topic of conversation... I;d love to know where the new rule got created saying that registries qualify to give themselves "routeable" /24's. Apparently that was a rule change I missed. ************************************************************** Justin W. Newton voice: +1-650-482-2840 Senior Network Architect fax: +1-650-482-2844 PRIORI NETWORKS, INC. http://www.priori.net Legislative and Policy Director, ISP/C http://www.ispc.org "The People You Know. The People You Trust." ************************************************************** From owner-pagan Thu Jan 22 21:03:06 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id VAA12210 for pagan-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:03:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from geocities.com (mail1.geocities.com [209.1.224.29]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id VAA12205 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:03:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from yapcs-r2 (yapcs-r2.iscs.nus.sg [137.132.85.230]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA05160 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:06:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34C735B5.12215DFB@geocities.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:04:05 +0800 From: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" Organization: VLSM-TJT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pagan@apnic.net Subject: Re: Happy 1998 for PAGAN References: <3.0.2.32.19980122023606.017a43c0@local.mail.priori.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Justin W. Newton wrote: > Jeez, I almost died of shock when my filters said I got mail to PAGAN. Please don't die before US$ 1 = Rp. 100,000. :-( I am just wonder why nobody cares RFC-2050 ?! > I;d love to know where the new rule got created saying that registries > qualify to give themselves "routeable" /24's. > > Apparently that was a rule change I missed. Will there be any new rule ? aufwiedersehen, -- Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - CEO VLSM-TJT - http://www.vlsm.org/rms46 ------- Grounded Theoreticians do it with data (mw/tic) ----------- From owner-pagan Thu Jan 22 21:32:12 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id VAA12476 for pagan-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:32:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from postman.ripe.net (postman.ripe.net [193.0.0.199]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id VAA12471 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:32:07 +0900 (JST) Received: (qmail 17453 invoked from network); 22 Jan 1998 12:33:41 -0000 Received: from x18.ripe.net (193.0.0.166) by postman.ripe.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 1998 12:33:41 -0000 Received: from ripe.net (localhost.ripe.net [127.0.0.1]) by x18.ripe.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA04642; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:33:41 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199801221233.NAA04642@x18.ripe.net> To: "Justin W. Newton" Cc: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" , pagan@apnic.net Subject: Re: Happy 1998 for PAGAN In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:36:06 PST. <3.0.2.32.19980122023606.017a43c0@local.mail.priori.net> From: Mirjam Kuehne X-Phone: +31 20 535 4444 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:33:36 +0100 Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi Justin, "Justin W. Newton" writes: * * Jeez, I almost died of shock when my filters said I got mail to PAGAN. * * As a topic of conversation... * * I;d love to know where the new rule got created saying that registries * qualify to give themselves "routeable" /24's. What are you exactly referring to? Is there a document stating this? Regards, Mirjam Kuehne Manager Registration Services RIPE NCC * * Apparently that was a rule change I missed. * * ************************************************************** * Justin W. Newton voice: +1-650-482-2840 * Senior Network Architect fax: +1-650-482-2844 * PRIORI NETWORKS, INC. http://www.priori.net * Legislative and Policy Director, ISP/C http://www.ispc.org * "The People You Know. The People You Trust." * ************************************************************** * From owner-pagan Thu Jan 22 21:34:54 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id VAA12533 for pagan-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:34:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from eponymous.priori.net (eponymous.priori.net [209.104.193.36]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id VAA12527 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:34:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from justin (justin.corp.priori.net [209.104.193.42]) by eponymous.priori.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9801.14/JDF) with SMTP id EAA11598; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:37:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980122043614.018f3700@local.mail.priori.net> X-Sender: justin@local.mail.priori.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:36:14 -0800 To: Mirjam Kuehne From: "Justin W. Newton" Subject: Re: Happy 1998 for PAGAN Cc: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" , pagan@apnic.net In-Reply-To: <199801221233.NAA04642@x18.ripe.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk At 01:33 PM 1/22/98 +0100, Mirjam Kuehne wrote: > >Hi Justin, > > "Justin W. Newton" writes: > * > * Jeez, I almost died of shock when my filters said I got mail to PAGAN. > * > * As a topic of conversation... > * > * I;d love to know where the new rule got created saying that registries > * qualify to give themselves "routeable" /24's. > >What are you exactly referring to? Is there a document stating this? [justin@liveoak ~]$ whois 192.149.252.0 [rs.internic.net] American Registry for Internet Numbers (NETBLK-ARIN-NET) 505 Huntmar Park Dr Herndon, VA 20170 Netname: ARIN-NET Netblock: 192.149.252.0 - 192.149.252.255 Coordinator: Hubbard, Kim (KH1589) kimh@ARIN.NET 703-227-9850 Domain System inverse mapping provided by: RS.ARIN.NET 192.149.252.21 NS.NETSOL.COM 198.41.3.10 RIP.PSG.COM 147.28.0.39 Record last updated on 06-Jan-98. ************************************************************** Justin W. Newton voice: +1-650-482-2840 Senior Network Architect fax: +1-650-482-2844 PRIORI NETWORKS, INC. http://www.priori.net Legislative and Policy Director, ISP/C http://www.ispc.org "The People You Know. The People You Trust." ************************************************************** From owner-pagan Thu Jan 22 23:03:54 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id XAA13574 for pagan-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:03:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from pn-exch.powernav.com ([207.77.89.40] (may be forged)) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id XAA13569 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:03:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from powernav.com (VINCE_LAPTOP [207.77.89.67]) by pn-exch.powernav.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id DKQ28D3R; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:07:39 -0500 Message-ID: <34C752F8.E5291FEC@powernav.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:08:56 -0500 From: Vince Wolodkin Organization: Clean Air Capitol Markets X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Justin W. Newton" CC: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" , pagan@apnic.net Subject: Re: Happy 1998 for PAGAN References: <3.0.2.32.19980122023606.017a43c0@local.mail.priori.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk So then basically, all I have to do is become a "registry" and I can get that routeable space I've been wanting. The rumor mill has it that the "registries" are dead anyway. But, who knows? Vince Wolodkin Power Navigator Justin W. Newton wrote: > Jeez, I almost died of shock when my filters said I got mail to PAGAN. > > As a topic of conversation... > > I;d love to know where the new rule got created saying that registries > qualify to give themselves "routeable" /24's. > > Apparently that was a rule change I missed. > > ************************************************************** > Justin W. Newton voice: +1-650-482-2840 > Senior Network Architect fax: +1-650-482-2844 > PRIORI NETWORKS, INC. http://www.priori.net > Legislative and Policy Director, ISP/C http://www.ispc.org > "The People You Know. The People You Trust." > ************************************************************** From owner-pagan Fri Jan 23 10:41:13 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id KAA17832 for pagan-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:41:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from intuition.iagnet.net (karoshi.iagnet.net [209.57.200.2] (may be forged)) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id KAA17827 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:41:07 +0900 (JST) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by intuition.iagnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/gavroche) id UAA21240; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:43:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801230143.UAA21240@intuition.iagnet.net> Subject: Re: Happy 1998 for PAGAN To: vince@powernav.com (Vince Wolodkin) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:43:04 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@priori.net, rms46@geocities.com, pagan@apnic.net In-Reply-To: <34C752F8.E5291FEC@powernav.com> from Vince Wolodkin at "Jan 22, 98 09:08:56 am" RFC_Violation: You saw it here first! From: jamie@karoshi.iagnet.net (James Rishaw) Reply-To: jamie@iagnet.net Organization: Internet Access Group, Inc. X-PGP-Fingerprint: <921C135D> C4 48 1B 26 18 7B 1F D9 BA C4 9C 7A B1 07 07 E8 X-Bumper-Sticker-Of-The-Week: Keep honking...I'm reloading X-Todays-Julian-Date: 022 X-No-Archive: Yes X-Face: d=) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Would you rather they have given themselves a /16 and not used any of it? I don't see this as bad.. altho they should have taken IP space from whatever upstream(s) they have.. Vince Wolodkin wrote: > So then basically, all I have to do is become a "registry" and I can get > that routeable space I've been wanting. The rumor mill has it that the > "registries" are dead anyway. But, who knows? -- james g.k. rishaw dal/efnet:gavroche __ IAGnet/CIC/netILLINOIS sys-eng DID:216.902.5455 FAX:216.623.3566 \/ 800.637.4IAGx5455 "The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them." - Mark Twain From owner-pagan Fri Jan 23 11:15:23 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id LAA18439 for pagan-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:15:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from eponymous.priori.net (eponymous.priori.net [209.104.193.36]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA18434 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:15:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from justin (mg131-191.ricochet.net [204.179.131.191]) by eponymous.priori.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9801.14/JDF) with SMTP id SAA25878; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:18:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980122181408.01c15820@local.mail.priori.net> X-Sender: justin@local.mail.priori.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:14:08 -0800 To: jamie@iagnet.net, vince@powernav.com (Vince Wolodkin) From: "Justin W. Newton" Subject: Re: Happy 1998 for PAGAN Cc: rms46@geocities.com, pagan@apnic.net In-Reply-To: <199801230143.UAA21240@intuition.iagnet.net> References: <34C752F8.E5291FEC@powernav.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk At 08:43 PM 1/22/98 -0500, James Rishaw wrote: >I don't see this as bad.. altho they should have taken IP space from >whatever upstream(s) they have.. One would think. ************************************************************** Justin W. Newton voice: +1-650-482-2840 Senior Network Architect fax: +1-650-482-2844 PRIORI NETWORKS, INC. http://www.priori.net Legislative and Policy Director, ISP/C http://www.ispc.org "The People You Know. The People You Trust." ************************************************************** From owner-pagan Fri Jan 23 11:54:51 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id LAA19001 for pagan-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:54:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from inorganic5.fdt.net (jlewis@inorganic5.fdt.net [205.229.48.42]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA18996 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:54:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (jlewis@localhost) by inorganic5.fdt.net with SMTP id VAA07428; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:57:43 -0500 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:57:43 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Lewis To: jamie@iagnet.net cc: pagan@apnic.net Subject: Re: Happy 1998 for PAGAN In-Reply-To: <199801230143.UAA21240@intuition.iagnet.net> Message-ID: X-To-Stop-Spam-See: http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/spam.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, James Rishaw wrote: > Would you rather they have given themselves a /16 and not used any of it? > > I don't see this as bad.. altho they should have taken IP space from > whatever upstream(s) they have.. My first impulse was to post something about ARIN being "special"...but then I thought about it a bit and figured maybe they gave themself a /24 because by taking space from their upstream, they'd be somewhat tied to some single provider. This could later cause problems down the road...possibly accusations that provider X gets preferential treatment, cause ARIN doesn't want them mad. The real question is, will ARIN be paying for that /24? :) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis | Unsolicited commercial e-mail will Network Administrator | be proof-read for $199/message. Florida Digital Turnpike | ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____ From owner-pagan Sat Jan 24 00:41:26 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id AAA25084 for pagan-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:41:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from pn-exch.powernav.com ([207.77.89.40] (may be forged)) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id AAA25078 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:41:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from powernav.com (207.77.89.67 [207.77.89.67]) by pn-exch.powernav.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id DKQ28DZ9; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:44:54 -0500 Message-ID: <34C8BB2A.476CE8A2@powernav.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:45:46 -0500 From: Vince Wolodkin Organization: Clean Air Capitol Markets X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jamie@iagnet.net CC: justin@priori.net, rms46@geocities.com, pagan@apnic.net Subject: Re: Happy 1998 for PAGAN References: <199801230143.UAA21240@intuition.iagnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Yes, I'd have rather they followed the rules they have set up. They aren't an ISP, so they DON'T get routeable space. They are supposed to be using their provider's space. Hey, if they cannot live with their own rules, how the hell am I supposed to? Vince Wolodkin James Rishaw wrote: > Would you rather they have given themselves a /16 and not used any of it? > > I don't see this as bad.. altho they should have taken IP space from > whatever upstream(s) they have.. > > Vince Wolodkin wrote: > > So then basically, all I have to do is become a "registry" and I can get > > that routeable space I've been wanting. The rumor mill has it that the > > "registries" are dead anyway. But, who knows? > > -- > james g.k. rishaw dal/efnet:gavroche __ IAGnet/CIC/netILLINOIS sys-eng > DID:216.902.5455 FAX:216.623.3566 \/ 800.637.4IAGx5455 > "The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage > over the man who can't read them." - Mark Twain From owner-pagan Sat Jan 24 02:48:01 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id CAA25957 for pagan-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:48:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from elektra.ultra.net (elektra.ultra.net [199.232.56.13]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id CAA25952 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:47:55 +0900 (JST) Received: (from jprovo@localhost) by elektra.ultra.net (8.8.5/ult.n14767) id MAA12245 for pagan@apnic.net; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:50:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:50:56 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Provo - Network Architect Message-Id: <199801231750.MAA12245@elektra.ultra.net> To: pagan@apnic.net Subject: Re: Happy 1998 for PAGAN Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Well, it seems to me that if they _did_ get provider-dependant-based space, clueless twits would say "provider X runs ARIN! I'm not in on that scheme!" Would you rather have many clueless twits that could loudly get press coverage complaining, or the somewhat-sane and mostly-rational complaints our kind generates? I could actually see an argument that is along the lines of ARIN (and RIPE and ...) needing to be as provider neutral as possible, like exchange points. Real exchange points have some of the "routable /24s" as well... Note that with the "competing domain registries" model, I do NOT see this argument applying against the NIC et al domain registries, just the address registries. I wonder if we're overlooking any other significant "class"of entities that need to be provider-neutral? Cheers, -- Joe Provo, Network Architect 508.229.8400 x3006 Network Operations Center Fax 508.229.2375 UltraNet Communications, Inc. From owner-pagan Sat Jan 24 04:47:05 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id EAA26881 for pagan-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:47:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from pn-exch.powernav.com ([207.77.89.40] (may be forged)) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id EAA26874 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:47:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from powernav.com (207.77.89.67 [207.77.89.67]) by pn-exch.powernav.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id DKQ281AT; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:50:46 -0500 Message-ID: <34C8F4D4.5EE1AB98@powernav.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:51:48 -0500 From: Vince Wolodkin Organization: Clean Air Capitol Markets X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Provo - Network Architect CC: pagan@apnic.net Subject: Re: Happy 1998 for PAGAN References: <199801231750.MAA12245@elektra.ultra.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pagan@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Joe Provo - Network Architect wrote: > I wonder if we're overlooking any other significant "class"of entities > that need to be provider-neutral? > I need to be provider neutral because when backbone provider XYZ's routers go flaky within and around my POP, I'd like to be able to continue serving my customers through provider ABC. Of course, I can't have a redundant link to provider ABC because I can't get routeable space. I can't get routeable independant) space because I'm not an ISP. I have tried to sell an idea to some of the major providers, but noones seems to be biting. I think XYZ and ABC should go together and get a block of addresses from ARIN that they will share. These companies could then target small (IP usage wise) companies that do business on the internet. Using their own customer databases, XYZ and ABC could identify customers who have only one internet connection and sell them "dual" service in partnership with the other provider. XYZ would continue service it's customers, while ABC would service it's customers, and they would share revenues. The beautiful thing about this is that these are people who WON'T buy a second T1(or whatever) now because it doesn't do them any good. It's untapped market. It's an instant sales hit. How many of you out there would buy this kind of service. I've talked to MCI,UUnet, and even ANS(hoping ANS could front an MCI/UUnet service in the coming merger). I've been given the brush off by Sales and Marketing directors, the only one I have convinced is a Sales Engineer at ANS. I know that everywhere I have ever worked(FCC,WashingtonPost.com,PowerNavigator) would have bought this kind of service in a heartbeat. Any thoughts? Vince Wolodkin